Episode Transcript
## Sutta 1 - The arrow of birth, ageing and death
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.
Then as Venerable Māluṅkyaputta was in private retreat this thought came to his mind:
“There are several convictions that the Buddha has left undeclared; he has set them aside and turned them down. For example: the cosmos is eternal, or not eternal, or finite, or infinite; the soul and the body are one and the same, or the soul is one thing, the body another; after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists. The Buddha does not explain these points to me. I don’t endorse that, and do not accept it. I’ll go to him and ask him about this. If he gives me a straight answer on any of these points, I will lead the spiritual life under him. If he does not explain these points to me, I shall disavow the training and return to a lesser life.”
Then in the late afternoon, Māluṅkyaputta came out of retreat and went to the Buddha. He bowed, sat down to one side, and told the Buddha of his thoughts. He then continued:
“If the Buddha knows that the cosmos is eternal, please tell me. If you know that the cosmos is not eternal, tell me. If you don’t know whether the cosmos is eternal or not, then it is straightforward to simply say: ‘I neither know nor see.’ If you know that the cosmos is finite, or infinite; that the soul and the body are one and the same, or is the soul one thing, the body another; that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists, please tell me. If you don’t know any of these things, then it is straightforward to simply say: ‘I neither know nor see.’”
“What, Māluṅkyaputta, did I ever say to you: ‘Come, Māluṅkyaputta, lead the spiritual life under me, and I will declare these things to you’?”
“No, sir.”
“Or did you ever say to me: ‘Sir, I will lead the spiritual life under the Buddha, and the Buddha will declare these things to me’?”
“No, sir.”
“So it seems that I did not say to you: ‘Come, Māluṅkyaputta, lead the spiritual life under me, and I will declare these things to you.’ And you never said to me: ‘Sir, I will lead the spiritual life under the Buddha, and the Buddha will declare these things to me.’ In that case, you futile man, who are you and what do you want to disavow?
Suppose someone were to say this: ‘I will not lead the spiritual life under the Buddha until the Buddha declares to me that the cosmos is eternal, or that the cosmos is not eternal … or that after death a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists.’ That would still remain undeclared by the Realized One, and meanwhile that individual would die.
Suppose a man was struck by an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends and colleagues, relatives and kin would get a surgeon to treat him. But the man would say: ‘I won’t extract this arrow as long as I don’t know whether the man who wounded me was an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial.’ He’d say: ‘I won’t extract this arrow as long as I don’t know the following things about the man who wounded me: his name and clan; whether he’s tall, short, or medium; whether his skin is black, brown, or dingy; and what village, town, or city he comes from. I won’t extract this arrow as long as I don’t know whether the bow that wounded me was straight or recurved; whether the bow-string is made of swallow-wort fibre, sunn hemp fibre, sinew, sanseveria fibre, or spurge fibre; whether the shaft is made from a bush or a plantation tree; whether the shaft was fitted with feathers from a vulture, a heron, a hawk, a peacock, or a stork; whether the shaft was bound with sinews of a cow, a buffalo, a black lion, or an ape; and whether the arrowhead was spiked, razor-tipped, barbed, made of iron or a calf’s tooth, or lancet-shaped.’ That man would still not have learned these things, and meanwhile they’d die.
In the same way, suppose someone was to say: ‘I will not lead the spiritual life under the Buddha until the Buddha declares to me that the cosmos is eternal, or that the cosmos is not eternal … or that after death a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists.’ That would still remain undeclared by the Realized One, and meanwhile that individual would die.
It’s not true that if there were the view ‘the cosmos is eternal’ there would be the living of the spiritual life. It’s not true that if there were the view ‘the cosmos is not eternal’ there would be the living of the spiritual life. When there is the view that the cosmos is eternal or that the cosmos is not eternal, there is rebirth, there is old age, there is death, and there is sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. And it is the defeat of these things in this very life that I advocate. It’s not true that if there were the view ‘the cosmos is finite’ … ‘the cosmos is infinite’ … ‘the soul and the body are one and the same’ … ‘the soul is one thing, the body another’ … ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ … ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’ there would be the living of the spiritual life. When there are any of these views there is rebirth, there is old age, there is death, and there is sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. And it is the defeat of these things in this very life that I advocate.
So, Māluṅkyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared. And what have I not declared? I have not declared the following: ‘the cosmos is eternal,’ ‘the cosmos is not eternal,’ ‘the cosmos is finite,’ ‘the world is infinite,’ ‘the soul and the body are one and the same,’ ‘the soul is one thing, the body another,’ ‘a realized one still exists after death,’ ‘A realized one no longer exists after death,’ ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death,’ ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’
And why haven’t I declared these things? Because they aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I haven’t declared them.
And what have I declared? I have declared the following: ‘this is suffering,’ ‘this is the origin of suffering,’ ‘this is the cessation of suffering,’ ‘this is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.’
And why have I declared these things? Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have declared them. So, Māluṅkyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared.”
That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, Venerable Māluṅkyaputta approved what the Buddha said.
MN63: Culamalunkya Sutta
## Sutta 2 - The heartwood of the spiritual life
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, on the Vulture’s Peak Mountain, not long after Devadatta had left. There the Buddha spoke to the mendicants about Devadatta:
“Mendicants, take the case of a gentleman who has gone forth out of faith from the lay life to homelessness, thinking, ‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering. Hopefully I can make an end to this entire mass of suffering.’ When they’ve gone forth they generate possessions, honor, and popularity. They’re happy with that, and they’ve got all they wished for. And they glorify themselves and put others down because of that: ‘I’m the one with possessions, honor, and popularity. These other mendicants are obscure and insignificant.’ And so they become indulgent and fall into negligence on account of those possessions, honor, and popularity. And being negligent they live in suffering.
Suppose there was a person in need of heartwood. And while wandering in search of heartwood he’d come across a large tree standing with heartwood. But, passing over the heartwood, softwood, bark, and shoots, he’d cut off the branches and leaves and leave imagining they were heartwood. If a person with clear eyes saw him they’d say, ‘This gentleman doesn’t know what heartwood, softwood, bark, shoots, or branches and leaves are. That’s why he passed them over, cut off the branches and leaves, and left imagining they were heartwood. Whatever he needs to make from heartwood, he won’t succeed.’ …
This is called a mendicant who has grabbed the branches and leaves of the spiritual life and stopped short with that.
Next, take a gentleman who has gone forth out of faith from the lay life to homelessness … When they’ve gone forth they generate possessions, honor, and popularity. They’re not happy with that, and haven’t got all they wished for. They don’t glorify themselves and put others down on account of that. Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence on account of those possessions, honor, and popularity. Being diligent, they achieve accomplishment in ethics. They’re happy with that, and they’ve got all they wished for. And they glorify themselves and put others down on account of that: ‘I’m the one who is ethical, of good character. These other mendicants are unethical, of bad character.’ And so they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding their accomplishment in ethics. And being negligent they live in suffering.
Suppose there was a person in need of heartwood. And while wandering in search of heartwood he’d come across a large tree standing with heartwood. But, passing over the heartwood, softwood, and bark, he’d cut off the shoots and leave imagining they were heartwood. If a person with clear eyes saw him they’d say, ‘This gentleman doesn’t know what heartwood, softwood, bark, shoots, or branches and leaves are. That’s why he passed them over, cut off the shoots, and left imagining they were heartwood. Whatever he needs to make from heartwood, he won’t succeed.’ …
This is called a mendicant who has grabbed the shoots of the spiritual life and stopped short with that.
Next, take a gentleman who has gone forth out of faith from the lay life to homelessness … When they’ve gone forth they generate possessions, honor, and popularity. … Being diligent, they achieve accomplishment in immersion. They’re happy with that, and they’ve got all they wished for. And they glorify themselves and put others down on account of that: ‘I’m the one with immersion and unified mind. These other mendicants lack immersion, they have straying minds.’ And so they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that accomplishment in immersion. And being negligent they live in suffering.
Suppose there was a person in need of heartwood. And while wandering in search of heartwood he’d come across a large tree standing with heartwood. But, passing over the heartwood and softwood, he’d cut off the bark and leave imagining it was heartwood. If a person with clear eyes saw him they’d say: ‘This gentleman doesn’t know what heartwood, softwood, bark, shoots, or branches and leaves are. That’s why he passed them over, cut off the bark, and left imagining it was heartwood. Whatever he needs to make from heartwood, he won’t succeed.’ …
This is called a mendicant who has grabbed the bark of the spiritual life and stopped short with that.
Next, take a gentleman who has gone forth out of faith from the lay life to homelessness … When they’ve gone forth they generate possessions, honor, and popularity. … Being diligent, they achieve knowledge and vision. They’re happy with that, and they’ve got all they wished for. And they glorify themselves and put others down on account of that, ‘I’m the one who meditates knowing and seeing. These other mendicants meditate without knowing and seeing.’ And so they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that knowledge and vision. And being negligent they live in suffering.
Suppose there was a person in need of heartwood. And while wandering in search of heartwood he’d come across a large tree standing with heartwood. But, passing over the heartwood, he’d cut out the softwood and leave imagining it was heartwood. If a person with clear eyes saw him they’d say, ‘This gentleman doesn’t know what heartwood, softwood, bark, shoots, or branches and leaves are. That’s why he passed them over, cut out the softwood, and left imagining it was heartwood. Whatever he needs to make from heartwood, he won’t succeed.’ …
This is called a mendicant who has grabbed the softwood of the spiritual life and stopped short with that.
Next, take a gentleman who has gone forth out of faith from the lay life to homelessness, thinking, ‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering. Hopefully I can make an end to this entire mass of suffering.’ When they’ve gone forth they generate possessions, honor, and popularity. They’re not happy with that, and haven’t got all they wished for. They don’t glorify themselves and put others down on account of that. Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence on account of those possessions, honor, and popularity. Being diligent, they achieve accomplishment in ethics. They’re happy with that, but they haven’t got all they wished for. They don’t glorify themselves and put others down on account of that. Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that accomplishment in ethics. Being diligent, they achieve accomplishment in immersion. They’re happy with that, but they haven’t got all they wished for. They don’t glorify themselves and put others down on account of that. Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that accomplishment in immersion. Being diligent, they achieve knowledge and vision. They’re happy with that, but they haven’t got all they wished for. They don’t glorify themselves and put others down on account of that. Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that knowledge and vision. Being diligent, they achieve irreversible freedom. And it’s impossible for that mendicant to fall away from that irreversible freedom.
Suppose there was a person in need of heartwood. And while wandering in search of heartwood he’d come across a large tree standing with heartwood. He’d cut out just the heartwood and leave knowing it was heartwood. If a person with clear eyes saw him they’d say, ‘This gentleman knows what heartwood, softwood, bark, shoots, and branches and leaves are. That’s why he cut out just the heartwood and left knowing it was heartwood. Whatever he needs to make from heartwood, he will succeed.’ …
It’s impossible for that mendicant to fall away from that irreversible freedom.
And so, mendicants, this spiritual life is not lived for the sake of possessions, honor, and popularity, or for accomplishment in ethics, or for accomplishment in immersion, or for knowledge and vision. It is this unshakable freedom of heart that is the goal of the spiritual life, the core and the final end.”
That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the mendicants approved what the Buddha said.
MN 29: Mahasaropama Sutta
## Sutta 3 - The fading away of lust
“Mendicants, if wanderers who follow another religion were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what’s the purpose of leading the spiritual life under the ascetic Gotama?’ You should answer them like this: ‘The purpose of leading the spiritual life under the Buddha is the fading away of greed.’
If wanderers of other religions were to ask you: ‘Is there a path and a practice for the fading away of greed?’ You should answer them like this: ‘There is a path and a practice for the fading away of greed.’
And what is that path, what is that practice for the fading away of greed? It is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. This is the path, this is the practice for the fading away of greed.
When questioned by wanderers of other religions, that’s how you should answer them.”
—
“Mendicants, if wanderers who follow another religion were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what’s the purpose of leading the spiritual life under the ascetic Gotama?’ You should answer them like this:
‘The purpose of leading the spiritual life under the Buddha is to give up the fetters.’ …
‘… to uproot the underlying tendencies.’ …
‘… to completely understand the course of time.’ …
‘… to end the defilements.’ …
‘… to realize the fruit of knowledge and freedom.’ …
‘… for knowledge and vision.’ …”
—
“Mendicants, if wanderers who follow another religion were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what’s the purpose of leading the spiritual life under the ascetic Gotama?’ You should answer them like this: ‘The purpose of leading the spiritual life under the Buddha is complete extinguishment with no fuel for grasping.’
If wanderers of other religions were to ask you: ‘Is there a path and a practice for complete extinguishment with no fuel for grasping?’ You should answer them like this: ‘There is a path and a practice for complete extinguishment with no fuel for grasping.’
And what is that path, what is that practice for complete extinguishment with no fuel for grasping? It is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. This is the path, this is the practice for complete extinguishment with no fuel for grasping.
When questioned by wanderers of other religions, that’s how you should answer them.”
SN45:41-48
